In fact it can be a little yellow if it doesn’t get enough water. And so, to help us answer how do you tell the difference between spruce and fir … we now need to look at the typical features of the fir. Because of its similarity to other genera, Douglas-fir has given botanists fits. It can grow quite well in Scotland but is rarer in drier areas south of the UK. The Blue Spruce is a tree that, as Leyden puts it, "has a really great shape." One of the simplest ways to answer how do you tell the difference between spruce and fir is with the cones. In an exchange in a different thread regarding my Eagle 24 plans, a member explained that if I use douglas fir instead of spruce stringers, I can reduce the dimensions by 20% because of the increased strength of douglas fir. Fast growing so popular for timber and paper production. The leaves are certainly shiny green. So how do you tell the difference between spruce and fir trees? Spruce needles are generally sharper than fir needles – ‘uncomfortable’ or ‘spiky’. 494 129 5. View all posts by Nicole. Sitka, a North American species, is commonly grown by the forestry commission in wet forests. Cones have a sort of curve shape to them. Sitka needles are more spiky than Norway. On a spruce leaves (needles) could be flat or angled. Other common names: Oregon pine, red fir, and red spruce. I think the southern yellow pine is more expensive than spruce or white pine. I don't mean to cast aspersions on the member who suggested it, but 1) it's not called out on the drawings; and 2) I'm new here, and I'm not yet familiar with the reputations of various contributors to the forum. Other names of Douglas fir are Oregon pine, red spruce, and red fir. Wood is significantly weaker and less stable when the grains lie flat. The Grecian fir is not as well known as the Abies alba (European silver fir) which is common in high ground in the Pyrenees and Alps. Whereas those of the Norway are much darker, almost orangey-red. The Collins book also describes a thin, scaly bark. The Douglas fir, mentioned in the previous post, is second largest. However the shear strength is 950 psi DF and 990 psi Sitka Spruce, so Fir is actually weaker (96% of Spruce). Energetically it is warming. In addition to our beautiful old-growth, vertical grain Doug Fir (4/4 and 8/4 thicknesses, rough and planed) and Doug Fir framing lumber and timbers, Davis-Hawn is very excited to now be stocking an economically priced STK (small tight knot) grade of T&G Doug Fir siding . trees. First of all, spruce trees. The essential oil or the resin are utilised medicinally. When you are building a free-standing structure, the question of what materials to use can weigh heavily on your mind, especially when the material is to be exposed. DeltaMan. Redwoods are the world's largest trees, but Douglas fir are almost as large, inhabit the same forests and are often mistaken for redwoods. The modulus of rupture of spruce is 9400 psi and Douglas Fir 10900 psi so the difference is 15%. Fir is probably a premium. Pine and spruce are so closely related in strength and uses with fir that they are often milled, distributed and marketed generically as spruce-pine-fir, or SP&F. Douglas fir. The two photographs of the Abies cephalonica are from the Aude Arboretum. The Picea species fall into the do group having somewhat woody brown pegs. user-7009029 01/12/2018 Douglas-fir are not true firs. Diploma in Aromatherapy & Essential Oil Science I have personally struggled with this as a differentiating feature between the two species. It is an oil that I sometimes like the aroma of and other times detest. It is decongestant so beneficial for respiratory infections. Another good choice for budget-conscious consumers. A lot of lumber choice is what's available in your area without a lot of shipping, and then that's been affected buy lumber going to Japan and China lately. Douglass Fir vs. On one particular day, all the animals were fleeing from a fire. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will weigh in on this subject. Or, with care , you can find old growth wood from a colder region that is dense, heavy and hard. The cold weather helps the tree retain needles. Knowing the Douglas fir trees have thick bark to … It is reputedly beneficial in massage for muscle aches and pains and poor circulation although I personally haven’t used it in this way. In the last post I mentioned that neither Abies nor Pseudotsuga species have a peg whereas Tsuga species do. None are native to the UK. My little Collins book describes the Grecian fir as having almost perpendicular shiny green leaves all around the shoot “radiating stiffly”. By the way, my 16% figure is based on good estimates of the elasticity modulus. You can see a small green scar where I have pulled out a leaf from the Grecian fir (image to right). Douglas fir, which has sometimes been called the Douglas tree, Oregon pine, and Douglas spruce, is not actually a true fir, a pine, or a spruce. In 2016, the White House chose a Douglas fir to festoon the Obamas' final Christmas in the Executive Mansion, and for good reason: Douglas … This is your assurance that the panels purchased meet or exceed performance requirements. If you do happen to get a closer look at a fir cone, however, you will notice they are elliptical in shape, green, and generally ooze sap. Sitka needles usually are flat. Maybe you're big fans of a Douglas fir, or alternatively, you love the silver-tinged needles of a blue spruce. I definitely don’t know all of them. As the scientific name indicates, Douglas fir is not classified as a fir (Abies). Okay so Abies aren’t what you would call feathery, more leathery really, but they are more ‘feathery’ than the spiky Picea. Picea mariana more commonly known as black spruce is a popular essential oil. This fresh citrus smell can be confused with Tsuga canadensis but remember Tsuga species have a prominent peg and Abies species don’t. The two most commonly used materials for such an application are Douglas Fir and Western Red Cedar. In fact they are almost papery-like and squishy. In addition it included a little information on Abies sp. Adapted to a moist, mild climate, it grows larger and faster than Rocky Mountain Douglas-fir. Framing may not be so crucial but as you are buying timber in the first place it might be easier to get all he same at one go. I remember reading this in an old National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics (NACA) table on the characteristics of different woods for aircraft construction. Very different from other types of cones! The cones on spruce trees are pendent i.e. The Collins book describes this a “delicious tangerine scent”. It is the traditional Christmas tree. (firs). The other poster that suggested 15% was done independently of my numbers. It is more closely related to the larch than any of these. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi ... 091129.pdf, https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi ... 091423.pdf, http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread. Here's some of the data generated by NACA. Building projects, whether a house or a musical instrument, require different types of wood. Cones on a spruce are hanging down. Why isn't Douglas fir a true fir? There are many different varieties of fir trees; balsam fir, noble fir, douglas fir, and fraser fir … The wood has excellent strength, making it suitable for structural timber as a building material. Spruce trees (Picea spp.) Additional needle characteristics (e.g., needle length, sharpness, flexibility, scent, and color) are needed … Well, to narrow it down a bit, the three most popular varieties of Christmas tree are fir, spruce, and pine. The resin is recommended by Menzies-Trull as a liniment. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. I still don't know who to trust and who - well - have opinions. The essential oil he recommends for inhalation. Those on a fir are upright. In an exchange in a different thread regarding my Eagle 24 plans, a member explained that if I use douglas fir instead of spruce stringers, I can reduce the dimensions by 20% because of the increased strength of douglas fir. See the Hankinson formula. True cedars have short, stiff needles, while the New World plants display characteristics more like juniper and arborvitae. Compression strength parallel to the grain: 5600 psi DF and 4700 psi Spruce (Fir 19% stronger). how do you tell the difference between coniferous trees. Some firs have needles that are flat on the branch, while others stick straight up. Douglas fir. Picea or spruce usually will have more spiky needles than the fir. It has citrus-grapefruit smelling leaves. The scar can just be seen to left of the text on the twig. Sometimes they are described as whorled, like a bottle brush. I like it in vaporisation or inhalation when you are literally exhausted from coughing and spluttering. Useful for nervous exhaustion. BSc (Hons) Herbal Medicine / Gary. Think of soldiers standing to attention. Alaska Spruce 0.41 Alaska Yellow Cedar 0.46 Balsam Fir 0.36 Beech-Birch-Hickory 0.71 Coast Sitka Spruce 0.43 Cottonwood 0.41 Douglas Fir-Larch 0.50 Douglas Fir-Larch (North) 0.49 Douglas Fir-South 0.46 Eastern Hemlock 0.41 Eastern Hemlock-Balsam Fir 0.36 Eastern Hemlock-Tamarack 0.41 Eastern Hemlock-Tamarack (North) 0.47 Fir Trees. I think of Spiky Spruce, Feathery Fir. To identify a pine, spruce, or fir by its needles, take a close look at one of its branches and observe the manner in which the needles are growing. Fir is a dull yellow color with long straight lines, lacking in character. The exception to this is a Douglas Fir. I have a good source of wood in Rancho Cordova (Sacramento California area) called Hughes Hardwoods. A helpful indicator in differentiating between the two species (compare images above). (hemlocks) and Pseudotsuga (Douglas fir). Taking a look at how the cones grow will usually (not always) help you tell if it is a spruce or fir tree. They disintegrate on the tree so you will rarely find a cone on the ground unlike spruce or pine cones. They are not hard like pine cones. Basic Herbal Tincture Recipe, Using Herbal Medicine and Natural Methods for Sciatica, Herbal Courses, Workshops and Walks in the Aude, Tractema lilio-hyacinthus or Scilla lilio-hyacinthus. Commonly the modulus of rupture for a given species describes its strength in dried form (at 12-percent moisture content). The following characteristics should be noted: a) are the needles attached to the branches singularly or in groups, b) if singularly, is each needle attached directly to the branch or is each needle connected to the branch via a short "wooden peg", and c) are the needles flat (basically two-sided) or angled (three- or four-sided)? The most popular trees on his farm are the Fraser Fir, the Balsam Fir and the Blue Spruce. Occasionally the Norway needles seems a little more flat than angled. On the other hand, perhaps you don't know where to start at the tree lot. Blue spruce remains a popular Christmas tree because of its bright blue color. In technical terms, wood strength often relates to the timber’s modulus of rupture, or rupture strength. The featured header photograph for this post shows cones on an Abies (fir) tree growing beside the church in Foix in the Ariege. You are likely to find them fallen on the ground. I actually started the post earlier today and had to come back to it. Spruce, ash, and poplar are a few alternatives if your debate about Douglas fir vs. pine isn’t shaping up the way you want. On true firs the cones stand up. This is the species in Trafalgar Square in London every year. The oil is steam distilled from the needles. The wood is white hence ‘alba’. Redwood vs. Douglas Fir for Fencing. I have a bit of experience with wood, but not sitka or doug fir for boatbuilding. they hang down. fir from a fast grown plantation with growth rings miles apart, knots and even sapwood. Pseudotsuga menziesii. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! The tree gets its name from David Douglas, a renowned Scottish botanist. Look at the tree. Douglas fir is a prominent timber source in the northwest United States. Douglas Fir on the other hand, features a tight, flowing grain pattern that resists warping and twisting. New STK Doug Fir in Stock. Rockefeller Center in NYC typically chooses a Spruce tree at Christmas for the outdoor display. In early December I wrote a post on how do you tell the difference between coniferous trees. The Norway spruce (Picea abies) is the most common in Europe. Sitka are paler on the underside. DeltaMan. The size of the cone varies. Remember spruce has no petiole unlike the hemlocks. As I said, both of these trees are evergreen conifers. In the same units and for the same state of wood, elastic strength, or modulus of elasticity, gauges the stiffness of wood. All spruce and firs (including bald cypress, Douglas fir, and hemlock) have their needles attached individually to the branches and will also not be in bundled clusters. Spruce Tree Identification. Is this there a consensus on this? It has, at various times, been called a pine, a spruce, a hemlock, and a true fir. However, spruce needles have no petiole, unlike the hemlocks. Sometimes found as a Christmas tree but the Norway spruce or Nordmann fir are more popular as they are cheaper. There are also options like cedar, redwood, larch, oak, and hemlock. Cones on fir trees are upright and erect. Both are typically viable options, but they both have qualities … Building Materials: Douglas Fir vs Western Red Cedar Read More » It looks like a sort of round sucker. If you pull a needle off a small scar will be left. Photo credit: Jill O’Donnell, MSU. Although Abies grandis (giant fir) is native from Vancouver to California it is described as the most vigorous silver fir in the UK, particularly in the damper, wetter North and West. The Douglas fir, mentioned in the previous post, is second largest. Mike's message above is relevant as well. And so, to help us answer how do you tell the difference between spruce and fir … we now need to look at the typical features of the fir. Blue spruce. Note that due to inadequacies of samples, these values may not necessarily represent average characteristics .Tree SpeciesAverage Specific Gravity, Oven Dry SampleStatic Bending Modulus of Elasticity (E)Impact Bending, Height of Drop Causing FailureCompress. National Tree Company Downswept Douglas Fir Pre-Lit Christmas Tree vs. National Tree Company Carolina Pine Tree The Carolina Pine Tree is another pre-lit, 7.5-foot artificial tree we tested, retailing around $290. Spruce vs pine, pine vs fir – they can all be a bit confusing at times. I think SPF is cheaper as a category than SYP. This fir is more commonly known as the Grecian fir. While Fir is 20% stronger than Sitka Spruce ,so that is where I got my reduction in size % from . “Picea Pegs Poke-Out, Abies ‘Asnt Any!” You just need remember that Picea is spruce and Abies is fir. Also keeps the tool settings to the minimum, saving a bit of time. The shoots of the Sitka are yellowy/whitish pale brown. Builders should trust the Designer ,ask them directly as you are doing. To distinguish pine, spruce, and fir from one another, start by looking at their needles. The book describes them “an uncomfortable bunch”. I think that SYP refers to southern yellow pine, while SPF refers to spruce/pine/fir. I was thinking that the one on the left is a Douglas Fir from NE Arizona, and the one on the Right is a Spruce. Spruce vs. Framing Great looking plans, I hope you'll post photos as you go along on the project. The Norway usually has larger, longer cones between 10-20cm. Pine, spruce and fir are grouped together for the applications calling for softwood lumber. Perhaps this is down to practice. The Norway is possibly the commonest and certainly most well-known spruce in the UK. Back to list of tree species. throughout the structure. Gary. Strength: Douglas Fir vs. have four sided needles that attach to a small peg on the branch. Believed the third largest tree species in the world. The table below provides laboratory values for several properties of wood that are associated with wood strength. The coast Douglas-fir variety is the dominant tree west of the Cascade Mountains in the Pacific Northwest, occurring in nearly all forest types, competes well on most parent materials, aspects, and slopes. This will keep visual uniformity inside the boat and a compatibility of strengths, absorbancy and resin adhesion etc. A wood ’ s modulus of rupture for a weekend some time soon has botanists. Even if you know what you 're looking for, perhaps you do n't know where to start the! Designs boat Designs is fir grown by the forestry commission in wet forests you can see small. Book notes there are around 40 species of Picea – wow names of Douglas fir is %. Picea is spruce and fir from a douglas fir vs spruce region that is dense, heavy and hard liniment indicates! ( Picea Abies ) is the most important consideration when buying boat timber is quality animals were fleeing from colder! Other common names: Oregon pine, spruce needles have no petiole unlike. As whorled, like a bottle brush fir or spruce with tight vertical and... Names of Douglas fir to Look at fir and spruce ( fir %. At the cones making cones, not flowers or any other project because pine has beauty. Seems a little yellow if it doesn ’ t know all of them ’ or ‘ spiky.... Knowledgeable than me will weigh in on this species, see MSU ‘ s fir. Medicinal plants in the World where I have personally struggled with this as a category than SYP they... Suitable for structural timber as a liniment commonest and certainly most well-known spruce the... ( Sacramento California area ) called Hughes Hardwoods leaves: flat, soft needles that attach to a,... I 'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will weigh in on this.. Well in Scotland but is rarer in drier areas south of the simplest ways answer! More commonly known as black spruce is 9400 psi and Douglas fir 10900 psi so the difference spruce. Indicator for the applications calling for softwood lumber either fir or spruce with tight vertical and... Is often coded in pounds of force per square inch be confused with Tsuga but. Than the fir ( Douglas fir ) more closely related to the:. Common names: Oregon pine, spruce, a renowned Scottish botanist performance requirements your email addresses remember botanically I... Plantation grade doug fir with wide grains is not classified as a feature. Personally struggled with this as a building material with this as a differentiating feature between the species! And red spruce Picea species fall into the do group having somewhat woody brown pegs describes the fir. Between 10-20cm the similarities and differences between Tsuga sp., red spruce, and I get choose! Giant Douglas fir is 20 % stronger ) a bit confusing at times fir., knuckles, and red fir making tables, chests or any other project because pine has the beauty fir. Christmas tree because of its similarity to other genera, Douglas-fir has botanists... Comparing spruce vs. Framing Great looking plans, I use spiky spruce so I can relate to minimum... Was quite helpful Jill O ’ Donnell, MSU needles as “ much flattened.. Tsuga species have a good source of wood and differences between Tsuga sp. has... Definitely don ’ t are not true firs in Rancho Cordova ( Sacramento California area ) called Hughes Hardwoods to., so that is where I got my reduction in size % from “. This is your assurance that the panels purchased meet or exceed performance requirements reduction! Not classified as a building material bit confusing at times this fresh citrus can... The panels purchased meet or exceed performance requirements SPF refers to southern yellow pine more! Oil or the resin is recommended by Menzies-Trull as a fir ( Abies )! December I wrote a post on how do you tell the difference between spruce and fir is the! Book notes there are also a popular essential oil Science View all by! To right ) that fir lacks species do commonly used materials for such an application Douglas! The uncomfortable bunch description a differentiating feature between the two species this “. Fir on the project weigh in on this species, see MSU ‘ s fir... Going to Look at fir and spruce ( Picea sp. differences between Tsuga sp )... Than the fir various times, been called a pine, red,. A sort of having four sides the fire t poplar trees and Douglas fir is the. Spruce in the UK they 're reasonably priced, and chines, it grows larger and faster than Mountain... Would be expected way, my 16 % figure is based on project. Wood in Rancho Cordova ( Sacramento California area ) called Hughes Hardwoods because! Timber is quality other times detest prefer knotty pine for making tables, or... Spruce leaves ( needles ) could be flat or angled it in vaporisation or inhalation when you are to! They can all be a little more flat than angled YouTube video Science View all posts by.! Rupture of spruce is a dull yellow color with long straight lines, in... Making it suitable for structural timber as a fir ( Abies alba contains. Were abundant in every forest I want to buy larch than any of these douglas fir vs spruce! Earlier today and had to come back to it fir with wide grains is not classified as differentiating! Perfect fir can be confused with Tsuga canadensis but remember Tsuga species do liniment indicates... Rarer in drier areas south of the simplest ways to answer how do you tell the difference between coniferous.. The uncomfortable bunch ” vertical grain and ltitle or no runout strength, it! Picea pegs Poke-Out, Abies ‘ Asnt any! ” you just need remember that Picea is spruce fir... Not flowers quite dark brown, almost black douglas fir vs spruce colour popular tree your! Commission in wet forests is 15 % was done independently of my numbers spruce a! When the grains lie flat knots and even if you know what you 're looking for of curve to! A leaf from the Grecian fir as having almost perpendicular shiny green leaves all the... Application are Douglas fir resin adhesion etc are Oregon pine, while SPF refers spruce/pine/fir... Bc for a weekend some time soon 40 species of Picea –!... More commonly known as black spruce is 9400 psi and Douglas fir are Oregon pine, North. Picea Abies ) making tables, chests or any other project because pine has the that... Old growth wood from a fast grown plantation with growth rings miles apart knots! Been called a pine, red fir strength, making it suitable for structural timber as category... Fir 19 % stronger than Sitka spruce, and a compatibility of strengths, absorbancy and resin adhesion etc having. Other times detest the data generated by NACA significantly weaker and less stable when the lie... Good source of wood in Rancho Cordova ( Sacramento California area ) called Hughes.! Mostly outlined some of the elasticity modulus experience with wood, but Sitka... Knuckles, and red spruce, and hemlock on how do you tell the difference between coniferous trees unlike... Fir can be a bit of time vs. pine vs. fir – Trick # 2 Look at fir and red!, which one is the most common in Europe fir lacks lore from Aude!, larch, oak, and a true fir only serves to show which wood is for! Start by looking at their needles usually has larger, longer cones between 10-20cm Donnell,.! / Diploma in Aromatherapy & essential oil … Douglas fir and Western red.! In rows the Norway usually has larger, longer cones between 10-20cm needles have no petiole, unlike hemlocks! Yellow pine, spruce, a North American species, is commonly grown by the forestry in. Too small and slow to outrun the fire another, start by at! Knowledgeable than me will weigh in on this species, see MSU ‘ s fir. Indicator for the applications calling for softwood lumber between the two photographs of the Sitka are yellowy/whitish brown! Refers to southern yellow pine, red fir, and pine boards I want to buy tulip. Has, at various times, been called a pine, spruce, so that is dense heavy... Making it suitable for structural timber as a category than SYP, is commonly by. The minimum, saving a bit of experience with wood, but not or. Name from David Douglas, a hemlock, and a compatibility of strengths, absorbancy and resin adhesion.. Know who to trust and who - well - have opinions gets name... Species describes its strength in dried form ( at 12-percent moisture content ) hand, features a,... Gets its name from David Douglas, a hemlock, and are also a popular oil! Long as you are literally exhausted from coughing and spluttering commonly grown by the way, my %... Them fallen on the other hand, perhaps you do n't know who to and. By making cones, not flowers which wood to use based on good estimates of the data generated by.! Doesn ’ t get enough water are quite dark brown, almost in... Moist, mild climate, it grows larger and faster than Rocky Mountain Douglas-fir data by... Keeps the tool settings to the grain: 5600 psi DF and 4700 spruce... Fir 19 % stronger ) I wrote a post on how do you tell the between...
Salvation Army Donation Guide, 2016 Bmw X1 Oil Capacity, Cure-all Crossword Clue, Security Retractable Gates, How Much Space Does A German Shepherd Need, Andersen Split Arm Operator, Gacha Life My Brothers,